The Excerpt: Sophie Gilbert on the Evolution of Feminism in the 21st Century
In a special episode of The Excerpt podcast, released on May 1st, 2025, host Dana Taylor delves into the complex and often contradictory state of feminism in the 21st century. The conversation centers around cultural critic Sophie Gilbert’s new book, "Girl on Girl: How Pop Culture Turned a Generation of Women Against Themselves," which argues that the pervasive influence of pornography has led to the hyper-objectification of women, effectively turning them into spectacles. The podcast explores the foundational question: what happened to feminism in the 21st century, and what can a critical examination of the post-feminist era teach us about empowering women to view themselves in a healthier and more positive light?
Gilbert, a staff writer at The Atlantic, joins Taylor to discuss her findings and the implications of her research. She explains that her initial intention was to revisit and revise the cultural landscape of the 2000s, with a brief foray into the late 1990s. However, as she delved deeper into various media forms – film, television, art, fashion, and music – she discovered the profound and often unacknowledged influence of pornography.
Gilbert highlights the significant explosion of pornography’s popularity between the late 1980s and the early days of the internet. The rise of VHS technology in the 1980s led to a tenfold increase in pornography rentals, reaching an estimated 700 million rentals annually by the mid-1990s. The advent of the internet further amplified its reach, creating a "shadow cultural product" that permeated society. While pornography was widely consumed, its impact was rarely discussed or analyzed. Gilbert argues that this pervasive but unspoken presence profoundly altered people’s perceptions of sex, love, and relationships, influencing cultural trends in subtle but significant ways.
Taylor probes Gilbert on the evolution of this influence, questioning whether women were unwittingly complicit in supporting a culture that ultimately disempowered them. Gilbert argues that the rise of post-feminism in the 1990s played a crucial role. Post-feminism persuaded many women that feminism had largely achieved its goals, securing equal rights and reproductive freedom. It encouraged women to celebrate their power, particularly their spending power, leading to the proliferation of cultural products like "Sex and the City" and "Bridget Jones’s Diary." While these shows touched on women’s anxieties, they primarily focused on celebrating sexual freedom, consumerism, and the idea that "women’s time" had arrived.
Gilbert emphasizes that post-feminism lacked a clear agenda or activism, unlike the third-wave feminism of the early 1990s, which actively sought tangible social change. Post-feminism, on the other hand, encouraged women to abandon their worries, cease advocating for their needs, and embrace consumption and enjoyment. The term "duped" is apt, according to Gilbert, as post-feminism skillfully persuaded women to set aside concerns and embrace a carefree, consumer-driven lifestyle.
The conversation shifts to the contrasting forces of "New Traditionalism" and "New Voyeurism" in the 1990s. Gilbert explains that the AIDS crisis deeply impacted culture during this period, resulting in two distinct responses. New Traditionalism promoted a return to the domestic sphere, urging women to embrace their roles as wives and mothers in the perceived safety of the home. Movies like "Fatal Attraction" reinforced this idea by punishing characters who strayed from traditional family values.
In contrast, New Voyeurism defended "sex positivity" and celebrated sex as a source of joy and meaning. This manifested in sexually suggestive content in various media, such as Madonna’s coffee table book "Sex," which featured her own fantasies. The 1990s saw a surge in sexually explicit or suggestive content, reflecting the cultural confusion surrounding the portrayal of sex. Gilbert argues that these opposing forces often converged in reality television of the 2000s, which simultaneously sexualized women and promoted the idea of domesticity and safety.
Gilbert further explores how music contributed to pornography’s influence. She points to the rise of activist female musicians in the 1990s, such as the Riot Grrrl movement, which advocated for women’s rights in the punk scene and created a safe and inclusive environment. Artists like Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth and Sinead O’Connor addressed issues of sexual assault and harassment. The Riot Grrrls popularized the slogan "Girl Power," aiming to empower women.
However, Gilbert argues that these activist musicians were eventually deemed less profitable than subsequent artists. The Spice Girls, for example, also used the "Girl Power" slogan, but their version lacked the activism and political weight of the Riot Grrrl movement. Despite this, the Spice Girls achieved immense commercial success, generating hundreds of millions of dollars in commercial deals. This success signaled the rise of more easily sexualized and controlled pop stars like Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera.
Simultaneously, pornography began to exert a significant influence on the music industry. Artists affiliated with NWA began directing pornographic films, and many hip-hop artists collaborated with porn stars. Snoop Dogg even hosted a best-selling hardcore movie for two consecutive years. Gilbert argues that this marked the mainstreaming of pornography.
Taylor then raises the question of why pornography has been largely absent from cultural critiques and analyses. Gilbert compares pornography to reality television, noting that both are widely consumed but rarely taken seriously. She describes pornography as a "cultural shadow product" that operates on the margins, despite its immense popularity. While its impact on culture, relationships, and perceptions is undeniable, it is often ignored or dismissed, making it all the more crucial to analyze through a critical lens.
The conversation then turns to the "manosphere," a collection of online communities that promote misogyny and anti-feminism. Gilbert expresses concern about the real-world implications of these communities, particularly the rise of extremist groups like the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers. She fears that these groups, while often presenting themselves as entertainment, normalize misogyny and hatred towards women, potentially leading to unhappiness and unhealthy relationships for young men.
Taylor also asks about the rise of the "trad wife" movement, which promotes traditional gender roles and encourages women to stay home and focus on domesticity. Gilbert sees echoes of past cultural trends in this movement, particularly the New Traditionalism. She notes that promoting traditional wifely roles can itself be a form of work, especially when done online to influence and create content. While acknowledging the appeal of this lifestyle for some, Gilbert remains skeptical of the movement’s overall impact.
Finally, Taylor inquires about the challenges faced by conservative women in combating disempowerment, particularly within conservative news circles. Gilbert suggests that a focus on common goals, such as paid family leave, parental leave, and improved healthcare for women and children, could create bipartisan opportunities for women to work together. She believes that identifying shared interests and focusing on tangible improvements in women’s lives is crucial for regaining power and influence.
